1. M. Scott Peck: "We get to die... I don't know about you, but I'm getting a bit tired. Not so tired that I'm ready to call it quits, but if I thought I'd have to wade through this crap for another three or four hundred years, I would cash in my chis sooner rather than later." Does Peck have a pessimistic view of life? Is he waiting for Godot?
2. Epicurus believed that nothing comes from nothing, that nothing exists except for atoms moving in void, and that the soul therefore must be made of atoms. With this in mind, death therefore must be the natural dispersion of particular combination of atoms that comprise a human soul. What does this say about the belief in afterlife? Is death truly the end?
3. Can the acceptance of death truly relieve anxiety?
1. I believe Peck does have a pessimistic view of life. The tone in which I read that quote just seems to be so negative.
ReplyDelete2.In my opinion, Epicurus beliefs demonstrate a belief in an afterlife for our souls. We are dead, but the atoms that make up our soul have dispersed into its afterlife. Therefore, death is not truly the end.
3. I believe the acceptance of death can relieve anxiety both for the person him/her self and for the living family members. If one accepts the fact they are soon to die, then they are acknowledging their time on Earth is done and can hopefully be satisfied with the life they have lived. This allows for the family members still alive to see the individual at peace and they then are no longer as upset visually concerning death.
"We get to die... I don't know about you, but I'm getting a bit tired. Not so tired that I'm ready to call it quits, but if I thought I'd have to wade through this crap for another three or four hundred years, I would cash in my chips sooner rather than later." Surprisingly, I honestly don’t think that Peck has a pessimistic view of life. Peck is accepting the reality that many who believe in the afterlife adopt, as well. I feel that I can definitely relate to Peck. I do not have a pessimistic view of life at all, but rather love and embrace every day I have, however, still I share his view. As a Christian, I recognize that this Earth is filled with sin and is filthed by “crap,” as Peck states. Why would I want to be on this Earth for hundreds and hundreds of years when I have a Heaven that it perfect, beyond description, and has absolutely no “crap”? It seems that Peck is somewhat, “waiting for Godot,” or waiting for “hope, often constructed as death.”(70) Peck, however, does assert that he is “not so tired that I’m ready to call it quits.” Perhaps his attitude could be more positive, but I think his point is valid. If I were to change his quote and make it my own, it would probably sound something more like this, “We get to die… I don’t know about you, but I am getting a bit tired of the shortcomings of this Earth. I want to continue to rejoice in each day God has given me in sharing with my friends, family, and those around me, but I definitely don’t won’t to have to suffer through this fallen Earth for hundreds of years longer.”
ReplyDeleteIf someone has an Epicurean view, on the other hand, their views may differ strikingly. Though Epicurus states that, “Death is nothing to us,” suggesting that being dead is not bad, as it is simply, “a natural dispersion of the particular combination of atoms that comprise a human soul,” (72) where is his Godot, where is his hope? Epicurus seems to suggest that death is not bad, but he has no good to hope for, as he views it as only a dispersion of atoms. Can these atoms ever be recombined to create this spirit once again? I find this unlikely and not a part of Epicurus’ view. Epicurus seems to eliminate an afterlife, which, for me, would eliminate my Godot and acceptance of death.
Though I accept death to a certain extent, I do not know if this can completely relieve all anxiety. I accept that I will die and have a hope in afterlife; however, I still have anxiety when I think about the process of dying and what this will mean for me. Pain is not something that any of us want to experience and causes much fear in many individuals. Though one can accept their death and look forward to a hope that comes with death, I don’t think that this can ever fully erase our natural sensation of fear of pain.
I dont think that it is a pessimistic view on life if Scott believes in the greater good of heaven. He knows that when we die there will be something much better than the crap world we live in now. He will live his days as best as possible, but has that hope to be ascended into heaven. With this view then he would also be waiting for Godot, with a sense of hope. Hope that there is a better world and that things can get better. However, this statement would sound pessimistic if he did not believe in the greater good of heaven. In this sense he would not be waiting for Godot because he has no hope. There is no hope for anything good. This would reflect the Epicurean view that death is nothing to us, death is not bad, nor is it good. It is just science, much like a reduction materialist view, that everything that exists is made up of matter and energy. Death is the end for those who believe in this and there is no afterlife, it can not be scientifically proven. And it will never be proven, it is something that we will find out once we die.
ReplyDeleteAccepting death definitely relieves anxiety. It will happen its inevitable, so we should use the time we have to do what makes us happy, not fearing death and the unknown. Granted, there will always be some fear of dying in our unconscious mind, all that we know will come to an end. It only becomes a conscious thought when something happens to bring it forward. So there are times in life when we might have anxiety over death. For me, I am waiting of Godot in a sense, I live my life with hope in that I will have an afterlife. Its only until I die that I will ever know if there is an afterlife.. If there is one that is great, but if there isn't, then I will only be dead, a memory to everyone that knows me, but at least I will have lived my life with hope and happiness and no matter what happens when I die, people can say that I lived a good life.
Peck’s statement, in my opinion, is not pessimistic. The word “pessimistic” implies negativity, and in Peck’s statement, he is merely being realistic—neither negative nor positive. While those who subconsciously neglect to realize the inevitable nature of death may find Peck’s view on life negative and even depressive, he clearly has a logical outlook on the nature of life. For students our age, we may understand that death is inevitable, thereby agreeing with Peck; however, since we are young, we would unlikely say “I’m getting a bit tired.” We would indeed likely someday conclude that living for several hundred years would be fruitless and petty. Ponder it; would you really like to live forever? To me, at least, the average human life span, around 75 years, is plenty for me; it poses a rewarding challenge to accomplish as much as I can, be as successful as possible, and to enjoy the people and things around me. If we lived for a couple hundred years, there would be little motivation to succeed at a viable pace. Peck, therefore, is not waiting for Godot, or sitting around waiting to die. He is simply willing to accept what he knows will eventually happen, and is not fleeing from it or disregarding it. He’s simply expressing a valid observation.
ReplyDeleteEpicurus’s logic about atoms composing everything—including the soul—poses an interesting question concerning the afterlife. If, when one dies, his or her soul disintegrates with the rest of the body, does any trace of the human live on? Those with various religious backgrounds contend that the soul is the immeasurable, nonscientific remnant of the human body that lives eternally, despite physical death; however, if Epicurus is correct, the soul would dissipate at the time of death, leaving nothing to represent one’s former body in the afterlife. By Epicurus’s logic, death on earth would truly be the end for each individual, since the afterlife is obviated when the last remaining trace of the individual has decomposed down to the atomic level. Many people who hold afterlife to be true may be upset by this; however, no one truly knows what exists because no research or observation can be made. The real question, then, is: is the soul made of atoms, or is it composed of a different matter that no science can explain? The corresponding answer will clarify your thoughts.
The acceptance of death can only relieve anxiety if the anxious feelings one is experiencing are a direct result of neglecting accepting that death will undoubtedly occur at one point or another. If a given human is struggling to accept the reality of death for 100% of people who are blessed with the gift of life, and finally is able to wrap his or her head around the reality of the concept, then the person can be relieved of anxiety. On the flipside, if one’s anxiety is resulting from the existence of death’s by products, such as pain, suffering, uncertainty of time and place, method of death, legacy, or supporting dependents, then the acceptance of death has no bearing on the anxiety. So, the circumstances during which accepting death leads to continuing anxiety would occur when the anxiety results from other topics surrounding death.
Peck isn't being pessimistic about life, he is realizing that he will not life forever. He isn't being negative with his outlook on life, but rather talking about how he doesn't want to be around forever seeing more and more negative things happen in the world.
ReplyDeleteI believe Epicurus does not believe in an afterlife. He seems to think that our souls just decompose the same way a corpse does. I honestly do not know if there is an afterlife or not. No one does. I hope it isn't but death could possibly be the end of our lives. People may not get to live on forever in Heaven
I believe that the acceptance of death can relieve anxiety, not only for the person who is dying, but also for the loved ones around them. If they can accept that they are going to die, and try to keep their mind off of it, they will live life to the fullest and live a happy life.
1. Peck is very realistic about the hardships of life. He realizes that one life time is hard enough, and living through 3 or 4 would be very painful. If anything I would say since he knows his lifetime won’t last for hundreds of years, he might value it more.
ReplyDelete2. I believe this is saying that when we die, we die. Nothing else happens to us. I think Epicurus does not believe in an afterlife. I for one do not believe that when we die that is it. I like to think that there is a greater plan for us and life on earth is only one chapter of our life.
3. For some people yes, others no. Someone accepting that they might die at any time might spark anxiety to the extreme. People who accept that they will die, and still have a fear never leave their houses thinking that something bad might happen. On the other hand, those who do accept they are going to die will live their life to the fullest and experience as much as they can. Ultimately I think it depends on the person whether or not the acceptance of death relieves anxiety.
Peck has a realistic view on life, not pessimistic. To grow old and live for even 80 years is physically exhausting. It would be really easy for us at a young age to say its crazy to want to die, but we can't speak for ourselves 60 years from now. Its almost like having a hard day of work and feeling satisfied and ready for a relaxing night of sleep. If you live a fulfilling life, eventually you are ready to die.
ReplyDeleteI agree that nothing comes from nothing, which justifies my belief in a God who sparked creation and let it takes it own path. As far as an after life, it is also true that man is comprised of atoms like anyone else is comprised of atoms and in this perspective maybe reincarnation is not a ridiculous as people believe it to be. The material I am made of is not new; in fact, it likely thousands of people, animals or plants had it before me and thousands of them will have it after me. If a spirit exists it would have to be comprised of something innate and this is where I disagree. Spirit cannot lie in atoms because that would mean I am made up of thousands of others peoples spirits, so then what makes it mine rather than theirs. If spirit exists it is unexplainable with science. This is difficult when our society rationalizes everything with math and science. What science can explain is death. Is death really death? Yes, for me death is very real, but my death is the beginning of life for something else. (So don't be selfish, get cremated and share your carbon! haha)
I agree with Joel, Peck does not have a pessimistic view of life, he has a realistic view. He is saying he does not want to live indefinately, which not many people do.
ReplyDeleteIn Epicurous's view, death can be considered the end since he believed the human soul was made out of atoms that just happened to come together, but personally I don't belief that a random set of atoms could come together and form something as intangible as the human soul.
Yes, just like the acceptance of many other things can relieve anxiety. Once you accept something as inevitable, there is no point worrying or stressing about it because it is going to happen no matter how much you pull out your hair and stomp your feet, so your energy is best spent doing something else.
"We get to die... I don't know about you, but I'm getting a bit tired. Not so tired that I'm ready to call it quits, but if I thought I'd have to wade through this crap for another three or four hundred years, I would cash in my chips sooner rather than later." I am in agreement with many of the blogs posted, Peck is not a pessimist but a realist. Peck simply acknowledges the fact that our life on Earth is not infinite, nor does he want it to be. The struggles that we face here on Earth are exhausting and Peck states that to endure these struggles for several hundred years would be too much.
ReplyDeleteAccording to Epicurus "nothing comes from nothing, that nothing exists except for atoms moving in void, and that the soul therefore must be made of atoms. With this in mind, death therefore must be the natural dispersion of particular combination of atoms that comprise a human soul." Based upon this quote, Epicurus shares his disbelief in an afterlife. Epicurus seems to hold the idea that our soul, much like our bodies will decompose. He suggests that the soul is of the same substance of our bodies, and will therefore cease existence, making death the true end.
I believe that the acceptance of death truly can relieve anxiety. Acceptance of death by the individual can relieve anxiety if the individual chooses to make the most of their time on earth. In this way death may serve as a motivation. A motivation to fulfill their life's goals. Acceptance of death may also relieve anxiety by the simple nature of acceptance. By accepting the inevitable, one is more ready to release the stress and worries that accompany this life.
1. Peck is simply accepting the reality of his own fate. He is not pessimistic, rather he is well-knowledged. I am not with the same thoughts as Peck because I do feel I have more to do in life and I hope to fulfill much more, so I am not yet tired of life, but I do think it is possible to get tired of life at a certain age. There are only so many days that a person can endure this Earth, I feel. Life would be very repetitive and dull after several hundred years, could you imagine?!
ReplyDelete2. I get the idea that Epicurus does not think that people continue with life after death. He feels that the soul and body are both simply matter that will eventually all break down at death. Therefore, he thinks that death is truly the end. I do not yet know if I agree with Epicurus or not, for I am still configuring by beliefs of what happens after death, but I do know Epicurus seems to have a distinct thinking that death ends all aspect of a person.
3. I do think that accepting death can reduce anxiety. I say this because I feel that a knowledge of death and acceptance of it leads to a better life leading up to death. If a person accepts death, they will better life their life to the fullest and they will die peacefully and they will potentially set out a better will once they die. A person who accepts death would better prepare for death and better prepare for their family for their death when the time comes to distribute personal items, pay death expenses, and it would make for a better process of death.
At first glance, I thought the Peck comment was very negative and pessimistic, but upon reading it a couple of more times, I don't believe that it is too awfully negative. Death in and of itself is usually viewed as negative and not necessarily a happy thing to consider. Peck says "We get to die..." which I find to be an interesting statement to view it in such a way.
ReplyDeleteEpicurus would say that the afterlife is just the atoms of the soul dispersing back into the world. Therefore, death is not the end, because the soul lives on in the form of its atoms that it is comprised of.
I believe that the acceptance of death can relieve anxiety, but it is not a guarantee. If a person knows that they are dying but they are at peace with their eternal state, that can bring a sense of peace about the entire situation. However, just because a person may accept that they are dying, that does not mean that it will be an easy road, because many will still suffer with the fears of the unknown and the reality that life as they know it will be over forever.
I believe Scott Pecks view is more realistic than it is pessimistic. His view is realistic in that he doesn’t have the expectation that life is going to be just all peaches and cream. Having the mindset that life is easy really only sets someone up for disappointment. By giving our best effort each day to living the best and most productive life as we possibly can the thought of no end in sight should very well feel daunting. As humans our very existence is based on time, it’s all that we know. To try and rationalize or quantitate infinity is just not something we possess the correct mindset to do. Everything we do is based on time in some manner. It gives us a sense of control, a feeling of security.
ReplyDeleteMost everyone would agree that our life here on this Earth is precious. We, for the most part, believe our time is limited and that we have one chance. To think that life could be several hundred years long, seemingly takes away our control and motivation.
1. This quote, in general, sounds pessimistic. However, I do not fell that Peck has a pessimistic view on life. If he did, suicide would seem to be his answer. Instead he is just hoping that he will not have to live through the “crap” of this world for long. He is willing to stay on Earth as long as possible though.
ReplyDelete2. If the only things existing on this earth are “atoms moving in void,” then the afterlife won’t consist of much more. If the soul continues on to the afterlife then these atoms are also moving forward. I do not believe Epicurus’ idea, however. We, as creatures created in God’s likeness are so much more than just “atoms moving in void.” We are here on this earth to do His work. Being a Catholic, I also do not believe that death is truly the end. If we live as God wants us to, we will live eternally with Him in Heaven.
3. I honestly feel that the acceptance of death can relieve anxiety. Living your life to the fullest and doing God’s work promises us a spot in Heaven, which is said to be so much greater than life here on earth. Accepting this fact can make it much easier to live day to day, and in turn reduce anxiety.
1. I don't believe this quote is pessimistic. I believe that Peck realizes that were all going to die eventually and he just states it in an abrupt way.
ReplyDelete2.What Epicurus was saying was when we die there's nothing else after, our body and soul die. I do not believe what Epicurus was saying. I think our soul does live on after death and that there is somewhere awaiting us after our death.
3. I believe that accepting death can reduce anxiety. If you truly believe where you are going after death you should have no worries about life after death. But you can never truly be prepared during death. You have no idea when your life is going to end and to me that can be scary. I'm more afraid of how I'm going to die, rather than life after death. I know for a fact that I don't want to drown! Life in a way is so mysterious and that's why we have to continue to live life to the fullest because we just never know when it's going to end.