You can start this thread by commenting on whether or not you think PAS should be a legal option for those who would choose it. Explain your reasoning.
I am not completely positive how I feel on PAS being a legal option but I do think that the state of Oregon has a good mindset on it. Oregon requires a physician to prescribe medication but it must be self-administered. Which means that the physician is not actually doing the action themselves. It is the person choosing it. Also, the prognosis must be for a life span of 6 months or less. The person must be a 'resident' of Oregon. A written request for prescription and two oral requests from the patient are also needed to escape criminal liability, plus written confirmation by doctor that the act is voluntary and informed. All of these rules help Oregon in a legal standpoint.
I think it depends on the situation. I do not believe that someone in the prime of their life who may just be a little depressed should be able to kill themselves via PAS. However in the case of patients who have no hope of returning to their desired quality of life, I have no problem with PAS being legal.
After reading on Oregon's policy, I would agree that it is a good way to go about it. However, I disagree with the 6 months or less lifespan, as someone may be in a persistent state that has no definitive prognosis and may drag on for years. Also while I believe that self-administration is a good means, especially for physicians that are not comfortable with it, I do not belie it should be limited to self-administration. Take for instance the case of Jean-Dominique Bauby. A person in Bauby's state may want to be euthanized, but they may not be physically capable of self-administration.
I think that after hearing Joel talk about the freedoms to being human that like what john said depending on the situation that PAS would be ok. When i lost my grandmother that was probably one of the most difficult situations for my family to go through. What saddens me the most is that it was quite evident that she was never going to recover or return to the lady we had all loved for all of our lives. The struggle and watching my family suffering makes me wonder if that if this was legal would that have stopped the suffering or only made us feel guiltier? PAS in my opinion is a very sensitive subject in many ways you can think that you’re doing the best for that person in your family but who knows the aftermath of such a powerful decision. Yes, i don’t find a problem with it if the situation was right but however if this becomes legal i do worry that we are beginning to play God. Who are we to decide when someone time has come?
I agree with pretty much everything John said. I support physician assisted suicide. I believe there is a point at which life is not worth living, expecially in the case of the very ill where quality of life has suffered greatly. I don't think physician assisted suicide should be available to healthy people with depression. Depression can usually be helped. Even if it absolutely cannot be, a physically healthy person doesn't need a doctor to prescribe suicide pills for them. That just puts a weight on the doctor. If I were in a situation in which I was terminally ill and didn't want to live, it would still be very hard for me to choose physician assisted suicide because of the effects that my choosing to die might have on my family. I think these effects are something that might need to be considered legally also.
I think that the only person that can truly decide when life is unbearable is the person who's life it is. Anyone who chooses to die has a right to die. That's not to say that they shouldn't seek help or try to make things more bearable, but the final decision is always the individuals.
I really struggle with this topic. One part of me thinks that death is something that should be natural and something that human beings should not necessarily have control over. However, I the other part of me knows that I have never been in a situation in which I felt so hopeless that I truly wanted to end my life. I have never been a terminally ill patient who wanted to end my own suffering.
I do not believe suicide is the best solution for the non-terminally ill because as Ashely said, depression is treatable. There is psychiatric medication, psychotherapy, ECT, etc. There are options! But, I still am not 100% sure that suicide is okay because you are going to die anyways.
One stipulation I feel should be made regarding euthanasia/PAS is that there should be a certain amount of time after the expressed desire for death and the actual event. How long that should be I can't say. I was reflecting on the diving bell and the butterfly and how Jean-Dominique changed his mind (seemingly relatively quickly as I didn't really grasp how much time was passing between scenes) about wanting death and thought this should be added.
In response to Katrina's statement that the people will die anyway, there are persistent states in which one may be permanently debilitated but are really in no danger of dying. How would you treat that? Or in the cases of Parkinson's and ALS, in which the patient will eventually die but may suffer for 15-20 years. Would you still treat them the same as someone who may only have a couple of months to live with the statement that they will die anyways?
This to me is a hard topic to explain and discuss. I feel like this topic has be stuck in the middle ground area. I feel like if you allow this treatment to talke place, then how are our medical professionals ensuring a quality of life. I know of and heard of several cases where people who thought they were never coming out of a como or pratically brain dead at one time, recoving to almost full strength. The question you ask then is did the person give up hope before they really had a chance. If you look at it from a perspective of someone who is an elderly person who lived a wonderful life, and now is at the stage of only relying on medical equipment to survive, then maybe physcian assisted sucide is necessary. I really don't know how I truly feel about this issue, I feel like there is alot of gray area that I don't understand pertaining to this topic.
While reading Dracula by Bram Stoker (1897), I came across an interesting comment:
"We should neither of us shrink from the task--awful though it be to contemplate. 'Euthanasia' is an excellent and a comforting word! I am grateful to whoever invented it."
What it shows is that people can derive comfort from euthanasia, as the act of euthanizing someone may be a better death than allowing someone to live and suffer or die slowly while suffering.
My views on PAS vary still even after having Dr. Cate's Biomedical Ethics class previously where we got to dive in deeper into these sticky subjects of suicide and PAS. If I were to be diagnosed with a terminal illness such as ALS or something equivalent I know I would not want to be a burden to my family as the disease progressed. I most definitely would not want to be going through not only the pain but also dealing with the fact I cannot control my body after it has gotten worse. So I would much rather go through PAS then dying naturally. However, with that being said I'm not sure how comfortable I am with PAS being legal yet. I think there would need to be many precautions and policies to take place. I say this because I found it disturbing to hear the stats taken from anonymous physicians and how many have previously requested acts. I would be worried that it would spiral out of control if not set up properly. Not only that but in the back of my mind I question whether some doctors quality of care would diminish because of PAS being legalized. Either way I think the legalization of PAS is a tricky scenario to play out in my head but overall I would be for it as long as the policies were extensial and thorough.
Before my presentation, I have never read about PAS so at first I was confused on whether or not I approve of PAS or disapprove. Hearing others' comments on the subject I based my answers off of theirs. If I were terminally ill and living with so much pain inside of a hospital then I would ask for PAS. My reasoning is, why leave somebody in so much pain and misery? Just my opinion. But, I would want to make the decision myself and have nobody else make it for me.
When it comes to making a personal decision on a topic such as PAS I still am unaware of what choice I would make. Part of me says that if I were suffering and there were NO OTHER WAYS to help with the pain I may consider it. But then part of me wonders when the time comes down to it, will I be able to really choose death. For me there are so many factors that would have to be considered for example my family, sure it hurts them to see me suffer but what would it cause if I was gone?
I am in favor of PAS, but with restrictions, since it could obviously be easily abused. I like John's idea of requiring time between the decision and the event, just to make sure, but I also know that there would be numerous practical issues with setting up a timeframe and with enforcing it. I also think that self-administration is a good way to do it unless another person's help is necessary. I also think that ensuring that doctors aren't required to assist if they don't want to for moral reasons is a necessary precaution.
I suppose this is just my peace making nature, or the fact that I'm big on shades of grey and i do not require a black and white definition of everything-but i feel that PAS, like anything else, should totally be up to the individual and his or her family. if one is of sound mind, he or she should have the choice as to whether or not he/she wants to have PAS to end their suffering. who am i to tell another person what he or she can or cannot do with the remainder of his or her days...?
I think that PAS should be legal if the individual wants it done, or the family wants it done. If i was dying and in so much pain or someone in my family was in the same situation, I wouldn't want them suffering for their final days. Death isn't always a bad thing. PAS is totally fine in my opinion, especially if that is what the sit or dying wants. I wasn't here for that day of discussion so i did miss what others had to say on the subject.
I don't think any form of euthanasia should be legal. If we have the kind of technology that people claim we do and dying should be "comfortable" in a hospital setting, then why kill them. Death is quite possibly the most natural thing there is. There are so many reasons why people would want a rich uncle dead that it isn't even possible to make enough restrictions for the system to make it full proof. My view doesn't have to be seen as prolonging the inevitalbe. By living a normal life we are prolonging death for a different reason I guess, but nonetheless still prolonging it. Like every normal person I have a contradiction to my stance on euthanasia, but for a different reason. I am in favor of the death penalty as a means of deterrence.
I also feel that PAS should be legal. If someone is in that much pain or wants to end their life that badly, they should be able to do so. If someone has a terminal illness that they know will cause them pain and suffering, they should be able to end their life before experiencing the painful symptoms.
i agree with megan kook. in the case that someone has ALS or aka Lou Gehrig i feel that this patient should have the right to end their own life. of course such practices should be closely monitored and have strict stipulations but should be legal
I believe in PAS. However, I feel it should be done on a case by case, between family members with 2 physician all in agreement of that being the best option for the patient. I support the family member who can help out their love one, but I don't feel they should have to. We call it humane to end the live of an animal when it is suffering and there is nothing more that can be done. Why, then can't we be just as compassionate for those we care about who wish it to end their suffering? I would like the choice if I ever end up in that situation.
PAS for me is a personal case by case situation. I think that it should be allowed, however it should be greatly monitored. There should be some EXTREMELY STRICT guidelines, but those guidelines means more responsibility, and the question becomes who does that responsibility fall too...
I know I already commented, but it seems I am the only one that is 100% against PAS and euthanasia. As I wrote in my paper, I have a real problem with people giving up and wanting to commit suicide or have someone else help them. This is little off topic and different than PAS or euthanasia, but ecentially the same outcome. I personally know someone in my parish that went out in his backyard early one morning and shot himself. He was the father of 3 children(all about our age), a contributing member to society, and an all around great guy. The reason he decided to kill himself is because he was caught stealing some drugs from the pharmacy he worked at. His close friends just said "he couldn't take it, and wanted to give up." I don't know all the details nor would I elaborate if I could, but my point is that he wanted to give up. This is really how I see all forms of suicide when you get right down to it. Regardless of the physical or emotional pain involved, there is always another option. I just think it is a problem in our society that we take life for granted. What good can come of it? Death and pain are a part of nature, once people accept that they will have a better understanding of what it means to live. Throwing in the towel wont get you anywhere. In reality death in inevitable for everyone. I know most people in the class wont agree with me and it might have sounded like an incoherent rant, but I think that we have a problem in our society that makes it okay to give up even at death's door. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter the reason, that person is dead. If someone is going to commit suicide, then they should not bring someone else into the equation and have that rest on their sholders. Feel free to comment if you think my logic is cold or heartless
I am not completely positive how I feel on PAS being a legal option but I do think that the state of Oregon has a good mindset on it. Oregon requires a physician to prescribe medication but it must be self-administered. Which means that the physician is not actually doing the action themselves. It is the person choosing it. Also, the prognosis must be for a life span of 6 months or less. The person must be a 'resident' of Oregon. A written request for prescription and two oral requests from the patient are also needed to escape criminal liability, plus written confirmation by doctor that the act is voluntary and informed. All of these rules help Oregon in a legal standpoint.
ReplyDeleteI think it depends on the situation. I do not believe that someone in the prime of their life who may just be a little depressed should be able to kill themselves via PAS. However in the case of patients who have no hope of returning to their desired quality of life, I have no problem with PAS being legal.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading on Oregon's policy, I would agree that it is a good way to go about it. However, I disagree with the 6 months or less lifespan, as someone may be in a persistent state that has no definitive prognosis and may drag on for years. Also while I believe that self-administration is a good means, especially for physicians that are not comfortable with it, I do not belie it should be limited to self-administration. Take for instance the case of Jean-Dominique Bauby. A person in Bauby's state may want to be euthanized, but they may not be physically capable of self-administration.
I think that after hearing Joel talk about the freedoms to being human that like what john said depending on the situation that PAS would be ok. When i lost my grandmother that was probably one of the most difficult situations for my family to go through. What saddens me the most is that it was quite evident that she was never going to recover or return to the lady we had all loved for all of our lives. The struggle and watching my family suffering makes me wonder if that if this was legal would that have stopped the suffering or only made us feel guiltier? PAS in my opinion is a very sensitive subject in many ways you can think that you’re doing the best for that person in your family but who knows the aftermath of such a powerful decision. Yes, i don’t find a problem with it if the situation was right but however if this becomes legal i do worry that we are beginning to play God. Who are we to decide when someone time has come?
ReplyDeleteI agree with pretty much everything John said. I support physician assisted suicide. I believe there is a point at which life is not worth living, expecially in the case of the very ill where quality of life has suffered greatly.
ReplyDeleteI don't think physician assisted suicide should be available to healthy people with depression. Depression can usually be helped. Even if it absolutely cannot be, a physically healthy person doesn't need a doctor to prescribe suicide pills for them. That just puts a weight on the doctor.
If I were in a situation in which I was terminally ill and didn't want to live, it would still be very hard for me to choose physician assisted suicide because of the effects that my choosing to die might have on my family. I think these effects are something that might need to be considered legally also.
I think that the only person that can truly decide when life is unbearable is the person who's life it is. Anyone who chooses to die has a right to die. That's not to say that they shouldn't seek help or try to make things more bearable, but the final decision is always the individuals.
ReplyDeleteI really struggle with this topic. One part of me thinks that death is something that should be natural and something that human beings should not necessarily have control over. However, I the other part of me knows that I have never been in a situation in which I felt so hopeless that I truly wanted to end my life. I have never been a terminally ill patient who wanted to end my own suffering.
ReplyDeleteI do not believe suicide is the best solution for the non-terminally ill because as Ashely said, depression is treatable. There is psychiatric medication, psychotherapy, ECT, etc. There are options! But, I still am not 100% sure that suicide is okay because you are going to die anyways.
One stipulation I feel should be made regarding euthanasia/PAS is that there should be a certain amount of time after the expressed desire for death and the actual event. How long that should be I can't say. I was reflecting on the diving bell and the butterfly and how Jean-Dominique changed his mind (seemingly relatively quickly as I didn't really grasp how much time was passing between scenes) about wanting death and thought this should be added.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Katrina's statement that the people will die anyway, there are persistent states in which one may be permanently debilitated but are really in no danger of dying. How would you treat that? Or in the cases of Parkinson's and ALS, in which the patient will eventually die but may suffer for 15-20 years. Would you still treat them the same as someone who may only have a couple of months to live with the statement that they will die anyways?
This to me is a hard topic to explain and discuss. I feel like this topic has be stuck in the middle ground area. I feel like if you allow this treatment to talke place, then how are our medical professionals ensuring a quality of life. I know of and heard of several cases where people who thought they were never coming out of a como or pratically brain dead at one time, recoving to almost full strength. The question you ask then is did the person give up hope before they really had a chance. If you look at it from a perspective of someone who is an elderly person who lived a wonderful life, and now is at the stage of only relying on medical equipment to survive, then maybe physcian assisted sucide is necessary. I really don't know how I truly feel about this issue, I feel like there is alot of gray area that I don't understand pertaining to this topic.
ReplyDeleteWhile reading Dracula by Bram Stoker (1897), I came across an interesting comment:
ReplyDelete"We should neither of us shrink from the task--awful though it be to contemplate. 'Euthanasia' is an excellent and a comforting word! I am grateful to whoever invented it."
What it shows is that people can derive comfort from euthanasia, as the act of euthanizing someone may be a better death than allowing someone to live and suffer or die slowly while suffering.
My views on PAS vary still even after having Dr. Cate's Biomedical Ethics class previously where we got to dive in deeper into these sticky subjects of suicide and PAS. If I were to be diagnosed with a terminal illness such as ALS or something equivalent I know I would not want to be a burden to my family as the disease progressed. I most definitely would not want to be going through not only the pain but also dealing with the fact I cannot control my body after it has gotten worse. So I would much rather go through PAS then dying naturally. However, with that being said I'm not sure how comfortable I am with PAS being legal yet. I think there would need to be many precautions and policies to take place. I say this because I found it disturbing to hear the stats taken from anonymous physicians and how many have previously requested acts. I would be worried that it would spiral out of control if not set up properly. Not only that but in the back of my mind I question whether some doctors quality of care would diminish because of PAS being legalized. Either way I think the legalization of PAS is a tricky scenario to play out in my head but overall I would be for it as long as the policies were extensial and thorough.
ReplyDeleteBefore my presentation, I have never read about PAS so at first I was confused on whether or not I approve of PAS or disapprove. Hearing others' comments on the subject I based my answers off of theirs. If I were terminally ill and living with so much pain inside of a hospital then I would ask for PAS. My reasoning is, why leave somebody in so much pain and misery? Just my opinion. But, I would want to make the decision myself and have nobody else make it for me.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to making a personal decision on a topic such as PAS I still am unaware of what choice I would make. Part of me says that if I were suffering and there were NO OTHER WAYS to help with the pain I may consider it. But then part of me wonders when the time comes down to it, will I be able to really choose death. For me there are so many factors that would have to be considered for example my family, sure it hurts them to see me suffer but what would it cause if I was gone?
ReplyDeleteI am in favor of PAS, but with restrictions, since it could obviously be easily abused. I like John's idea of requiring time between the decision and the event, just to make sure, but I also know that there would be numerous practical issues with setting up a timeframe and with enforcing it. I also think that self-administration is a good way to do it unless another person's help is necessary. I also think that ensuring that doctors aren't required to assist if they don't want to for moral reasons is a necessary precaution.
ReplyDeleteI suppose this is just my peace making nature, or the fact that I'm big on shades of grey and i do not require a black and white definition of everything-but i feel that PAS, like anything else, should totally be up to the individual and his or her family. if one is of sound mind, he or she should have the choice as to whether or not he/she wants to have PAS to end their suffering. who am i to tell another person what he or she can or cannot do with the remainder of his or her days...?
ReplyDeleteI think that PAS should be legal if the individual wants it done, or the family wants it done. If i was dying and in so much pain or someone in my family was in the same situation, I wouldn't want them suffering for their final days. Death isn't always a bad thing. PAS is totally fine in my opinion, especially if that is what the sit or dying wants. I wasn't here for that day of discussion so i did miss what others had to say on the subject.
ReplyDeleteI don't think any form of euthanasia should be legal. If we have the kind of technology that people claim we do and dying should be "comfortable" in a hospital setting, then why kill them. Death is quite possibly the most natural thing there is. There are so many reasons why people would want a rich uncle dead that it isn't even possible to make enough restrictions for the system to make it full proof. My view doesn't have to be seen as prolonging the inevitalbe. By living a normal life we are prolonging death for a different reason I guess, but nonetheless still prolonging it.
ReplyDeleteLike every normal person I have a contradiction to my stance on euthanasia, but for a different reason. I am in favor of the death penalty as a means of deterrence.
I also feel that PAS should be legal. If someone is in that much pain or wants to end their life that badly, they should be able to do so. If someone has a terminal illness that they know will cause them pain and suffering, they should be able to end their life before experiencing the painful symptoms.
ReplyDeletei agree with megan kook. in the case that someone has ALS or aka Lou Gehrig i feel that this patient should have the right to end their own life. of course such practices should be closely monitored and have strict stipulations but should be legal
ReplyDeleteHello All,
ReplyDeleteI believe in PAS. However, I feel it should be done on a case by case, between family members with 2 physician all in agreement of that being the best option for the patient. I support the family member who can help out their love one, but I don't feel they should have to. We call it humane to end the live of an animal when it is suffering and there is nothing more that can be done. Why, then can't we be just as compassionate for those we care about who wish it to end their suffering? I would like the choice if I ever end up in that situation.
PAS for me is a personal case by case situation. I think that it should be allowed, however it should be greatly monitored. There should be some EXTREMELY STRICT guidelines, but those guidelines means more responsibility, and the question becomes who does that responsibility fall too...
ReplyDeleteI know I already commented, but it seems I am the only one that is 100% against PAS and euthanasia. As I wrote in my paper, I have a real problem with people giving up and wanting to commit suicide or have someone else help them.
ReplyDeleteThis is little off topic and different than PAS or euthanasia, but ecentially the same outcome. I personally know someone in my parish that went out in his backyard early one morning and shot himself. He was the father of 3 children(all about our age), a contributing member to society, and an all around great guy. The reason he decided to kill himself is because he was caught stealing some drugs from the pharmacy he worked at. His close friends just said "he couldn't take it, and wanted to give up." I don't know all the details nor would I elaborate if I could, but my point is that he wanted to give up.
This is really how I see all forms of suicide when you get right down to it. Regardless of the physical or emotional pain involved, there is always another option. I just think it is a problem in our society that we take life for granted. What good can come of it? Death and pain are a part of nature, once people accept that they will have a better understanding of what it means to live. Throwing in the towel wont get you anywhere. In reality death in inevitable for everyone.
I know most people in the class wont agree with me and it might have sounded like an incoherent rant, but I think that we have a problem in our society that makes it okay to give up even at death's door. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter the reason, that person is dead. If someone is going to commit suicide, then they should not bring someone else into the equation and have that rest on their sholders. Feel free to comment if you think my logic is cold or heartless